Never drive your friends anywhere

"YSI-what can brown do for you" (ysi-what-can-brown-do-for-you) 10/24/2013 at 02:32 • Filed to: None

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"Why don't you drive off" says friend. "Cause the car needs to warm up, it isn't good to drive a car when the oil and things aren't warmed up" - Me. "Its like 80 out here, I think the engine is warm enough" - Friend. And that is why I don't like making friends. . .

lepie > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 02:35

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I'm guessing that's not too much of a problem. I don't think OCD people have that many friends?

McSchmalex > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 02:36

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Huh, so you are one of those people that lets the car idle and warm up for ten minutes before you drive it, eh?

Don't you hate it when poeple like us aren't understood?

MtrRider Just Wants Doritos > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 02:36

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My friends

"What the holy fuck man slow down that's a corner what the fuck is the matter with you oh shit oh shit oh FUUUUUUCK!"

MtrRider Just Wants Doritos > McSchmalex 10/24/2013 at 02:37

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You need to do that if the car is old.

YSI-what can brown do for you > McSchmalex 10/24/2013 at 02:37

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I let it warm up for like 3 or 4 minutes, but yeah. 10 minutes if necessary, which it isn't for my car.

YSI-what can brown do for you > lepie 10/24/2013 at 02:38

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Its just the fact that he doesn't understand how hot engines get. . . I would think explosions cause metal to warm up a bit.

911e46z06 > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 02:38

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YSI-what can brown do for you > 911e46z06 10/24/2013 at 02:41

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I need this in my life.

lepie > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 02:43

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The heads warm up pretty quickly, even at idle ... because explosions. Nevermind that, though. It's his car, right? Who cares? Unless it's some ultra rare classic or exotic ... just let him do what he wants. Not a reason to avoid social contact.

911e46z06 > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 02:43

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Talk to this guy

YSI-what can brown do for you > lepie 10/24/2013 at 02:43

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No, tis my car. I was driving it. I just don't want anything to go wrong. Better safe than sorry.

lepie > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 02:45

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You do know that letting a car idle for too long is bad, right? Especially letting it warm up doing that. There is very little oil pressure at idle, and the oil isn't at it's nominal viscosity until the engine warms up. Modern cars are made to be started up, idled for a couple of seconds (like 10 or so) and driven off. You do more damage by letting it idle. The head doesn't get enough lubrication, the cats clog up, your exhaust gets full of condensation, etc, etc.

YSI-what can brown do for you > MtrRider Just Wants Doritos 10/24/2013 at 02:45

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I never do that, I hate driving with other people in the car. It kind of ruins it for me, cause now I have to talk to the person.

YSI-what can brown do for you > lepie 10/24/2013 at 02:47

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So letting it sit for 2 minutes or so is a bad idea? I generally wait until the cold start is over.

Squid > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 02:47

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I don't let my car fully warm up but I do take it easy until it reaches full temp. The main fact is that the oil is still lubricating and the tolerances of modern motors helps eliminate the need to warm a car up to full temp before driving. Although with a fully built motor pushing lots of power it is prudent to let it warm up fully before stressing it. Now if I lived in a climate that gets to be full winter it would be a different story, that bitch would be up to temp before I tried to move her.

lepie > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 02:50

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I'm not saying it's a no-no. I'm just saying it's better for your car to drive it and keep the revs under 2-2.5K for a while. Go easy on it before it warms up.

Personally, if you're that paranoid about this, you should go get an oil temp meter. People think that whenever their water temp sits in the nominal zone, that their car has warmed up.

Water temperature is largely irrelevant, until it gets too high. It's a good indicator, but nothing more. You want to measure oil temp, not water temp.

MtrRider Just Wants Doritos > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 02:51

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I know. That's why God invented motorcycles. Or, as they are known in India, minivans.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Squid 10/24/2013 at 02:52

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I generally wait until it is done with a cold start, and then wait 10 to 15 seconds, and then off I go. I think that should be more than enough. That takes about 2 minutes or so, but some people just can't wait!

YSI-what can brown do for you > lepie 10/24/2013 at 03:00

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The problem with my car is that you have to keep it at about 2K while driving normally, it really bogs down under that. I generally go easy for about 10 minutes of driving, when I think the temps should be at normal levels. But I will definitely check out if letting an engine sit for a while is a bad thing, you have peaked my interest

YSI-what can brown do for you > MtrRider Just Wants Doritos 10/24/2013 at 03:01

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yeah but I like 4 wheels, and having the big ol' shell around me. I am not sure why, but Motorcycles just don't appeal to me, they do sound great though!

lepie > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 03:07

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Think about it this way ... Your engine will wear much quicker when it's cold due to low levels of lubrication, high levels of condensation, blow-by, etc. You want to warm it up as quickly as possible, but you are constrained by such things as thermal expansion related stresses, etc. Typically, the head will work against the block, since the head warms up quicker.

When you let it idle like that, you aren't really producing a whole lot of energy. What will happen is the head will warm up, but the block won't really warm up very much at all (relatively speaking). The oil won't warm up very quickly. You can get condensation in your exhaust, under your valve covers, etc. You can also experience cold-stacking, but that's more for diesels.

The idea is simple. Get it warmed up as quickly as possible, within reason. People always think that you should avoid high revs when the engine is cold, and while it's certainly not a good idea to rev the nuts off a cold engine ... it's really high load that should be avoided.

MtrRider Just Wants Doritos > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 03:07

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Have you tried riding a bike? You have to get the right gear to feel comfortable. If I'm not wearing all my gear I feel exposed, but with it on it's just the best thing in the world.

Burrito de EJ25 > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 03:08

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4 MINUTES?! You're driving a modern car. You're just unnecessarily murdering mother nature.

Wait 20 seconds, drive off, and don't hoon until the car has warmed.

Also, you should try and be more patient with people. Friends are neat.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Burrito de EJ25 10/24/2013 at 03:14

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This is basically my understanding from everyone on here. But I just can't get around driving a car when it does a cold start. 20 seconds can't honestly be enough, it just feels wrong. Like today, it must have stayed at the 2K mark for atleast 2 minutes, before coming down to 1.5 and then finally down to 900(which isn't even idle speed).

YSI-what can brown do for you > lepie 10/24/2013 at 03:16

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I see, so what about cold starts, should I wait for those to be over or just wait a minute and if that is still going on just drive off?

Squid > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 03:16

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My car gets started and pulled out of the garage and then sits for about 30 seconds to a minute while I close the garage and make sure I have everything I need and get the top down. Then if my roommates are in the driveway with their trucks it takes about a minute to creep down the driveway then I'm off. It is lots of fun to squeeze into tight spaces with the Miata. The first time I did that one of my roommates was laughing his ass off and couldn't believe that it fit between the house and his Ram 2500. . .

lepie > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 03:19

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The cold start is part of the car trying to warm up quicker (aside from choking so it won't stall). It will advance ignition significantly until it detects enough temp in the combustion chambers to guarantee a good idle. You don't have to wait for it to be over. My M5 would take a good five minutes before it went away. I never paid any attention to it (other than on an M car, the throttle response is SHIT during cold start). Just drive it and go easy on it for a while.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Squid 10/24/2013 at 03:20

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If it is warm, that is about how long it takes for me to get going, but now it is cold and it takes up to a few minutes to get it down to something of normal idle, atleast in my car. It takes about a 2 minutes for it to drop to 900 rpms which still isn't normal idle speed.

Burrito de EJ25 > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 03:20

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My WRX does the same thing. Just keep your revs low. Your oil didn't turn into shaved ice overnight.

Reference your owner's manual for warming procedures in the winter.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Burrito de EJ25 10/24/2013 at 03:25

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Now I feel like a massive idiot. God damn it. In anycase, I will check my owners manual, it probably says whatever one else has said.

Squid > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 03:25

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Mine takes forever, something about a stuck thermostat I believe. I just don't have the time or the money to fix it right now. I can let it idle for 5-10 minutes and the water won't get to temp. Don't know about the oil temps but I'm sure that the Mobil 1 should do a decent job as long as I stay out of the throttle. I try to keep it below 4000 until it warms up. It is really easy now where I live as most of this city has a speed limit of 35. . .

YSI-what can brown do for you > MtrRider Just Wants Doritos 10/24/2013 at 03:28

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I haven't drove one, but I have riden on the back of one. It was fun, but it just didn't quite right to me. Still have to try it myself, might get a cheap 150cc honda or something. It was on one of these that I rode on

It has a 500cc 4-stroke, 1-cylinder engine. It sounds pretty amazing, but performance isn't amazing. So what though!

Burrito de EJ25 > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 03:30

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Don't sweat it. You're not that dude who starts his car up in the morning and drops the clutch at 4k out of the drive-way. You're solid.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Squid 10/24/2013 at 03:33

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I keep it below 3K when warming up, which isn't to hard. Except when trying to get up to traffic speed then you are that asshole who isn't speeding up. I guess everything my dad thought me about warming a car up is wrong. . . now I feel kind of stupid.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Burrito de EJ25 10/24/2013 at 03:35

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I know that guy, he drives a Maserati. . . I mean its not like its Ferrari expensive.

Squid > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 03:36

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Nah it just isn't as crucial with the modern motors and the tolerances they are built to are much better than what the old motors are like. A '69 Chevelle Malibu SS still needs its warm up time on a cold morning. The motor in your FRS is just built that much better that it isn't super crucial to warm it up fully before setting out.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Squid 10/24/2013 at 03:39

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As an engineering student, I feel like I should have known about all this stuff.

MtrRider Just Wants Doritos > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 03:43

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Riding on the back of a bike is nothing like riding one. First off, it's terrifying because you have to trust the guy in front of you to not crash. Second, you have no control and it you try to turn or do anything quickly, you could crash.

I ride a Honda CRF150F dirt bike. It is a super fun little thing. Here it is.

You can teach someone to ride on it, and you can keep a good rider happy on it. It's as good trail bike and will keep up with big bikes on most trails. Pretty slow though, so if speed is what you wan't (or street riding) the new CRF250L is the bike to have imo.

Big bore thumpers are generally low revving torque monsters. While they aren't suicidal to ride like a 500+cc sport bike, a lighter bike like a 150/250 is more fun in my opinion.

gmctavish needs more space > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 03:57

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I let mine warm up because it's from 1969 and if I try to go over 1500rpm when it's cold, it fights back. Physically, and audibly.

Squid > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 04:03

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Hahahaha. Seriously. Its kinda funny that the old engines were designed to use the oil as a critical surface to help even out the mechanical inefficiencies. Its kinda weird to look at the specs for old motors bottom ends and then compare them to a modern designed and built motor. It is a drastic change in what is allowable.

Rassss > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 05:07

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Yes, of course wait up to 30s in the winter (i mean 0 degrees to -20 celsius) just to lube the trans and slowly take off. If you are driving slowly the first 5 minutes you won't put any real load on the car anyway. AND it actually warms up... I've had my car idling for 15 minutes in the winter - when I sit in the car is still cold. But when I take off, drive carefully, I can feel it getting warmer after 2 minutes.

Think of it this way - you're actually running your engine 5 minutes longer.
1) it will wear the engine more (5 minutes worth)
2) it will use more money (gas)
3) for the car it doesn't matter (unless very old car)
4) you waste your own time
5) you pollute the nature and that's very bad because captain planet

Peace!Dickholes!

McMike > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 05:33

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I start it my cars, then take a minute to adjust seatbelt/radio, then I go. Same goes for the motorbike - I'll usually start it when I'm about two minutes from finishing putting my gear on.

The car will actually heat up quicker while under load, and so will the rest of the components. (transmission, rear diff) etc.. I keep everything at low revs and light loads until it heats up.

As long as you don't let it sit until it's warm and race off with the other fluids cold, it's really just wasting a little bit of fuel and time.

Proper warm-up procedures will be debated as long as ICE vehicles exist.

Dirty Harry Callahan > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 06:29

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Even the grind of the piston is made to be warmed up a quick as possible. Modern pistons are slightly ovoid in shape till they warm up. Take it easy at first, don't sit and idle. ASE Master Auto tech (formerly) and my most experienced mentors all advocated this on modern cars ie 90's and newer.

Eazy-O > MtrRider Just Wants Doritos 10/24/2013 at 07:00

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I have a friend and a brother like that. :D Kinda gets on my tits after a while.

Nick, Drives a Cobalt LT > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 08:15

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Reminds me I should go start my car and let it warm up before work...its like 30 degrees....

Cixelsyd > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 09:20

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How old is your car? If it is old. I can understand your point, but there is really no reason to let the engine warm up before driving in a newer car. Just take it a little easy and stay away from the high rpms until the temps come up and you'll be fine.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 09:21

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Modern engine + not driving it hard for the first few minutes = absolutely no reason to "warm up" a modern car.

A 40 year old Alfa? Sure, especially with carburetion, old seals, chokes, etc. But a brand new Toyota? Nah, dawg. Nah.

Unnecessary pedantry can be worse than ignorance.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 09:27

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With a modern car there is no need to sit and let it warm up. If you start it and give it 30 seconds or so that is more than sufficient to start driving. As long as you keep the rev's reasonable until things have a few minutes to warm up you shouldn't have any problems. A reasonable rule of thumb would be to keep it under the break in rpm's while things are getting up to temp.

To give you an idea of the start up conditions engines are designed to, the cold scuff and hot scuff tests will give you some idea. For a cold scuff test the engine and fluids are cooled to well below freezing. I can't remember the exact temp, but 0F, or maybe even below zero Fahrenheit. Then the engine is started and they have to get it to WOT within 15-30 seconds and run for some minutes. That test gets repeated a couple times, then the engine is torn down and they inspect the internals for signs of unacceptable wear. The hot scuff test is similar, but the coolant and oil are preheated to conditions that would be representative of the car overheating. Something like 250F for the oil.

I wasn't directly involved with the engine testing, but worked at a Tier 1 supplier who manufactured pistons for a bunch of the major automakers. I was a quality engineer at a manufacturing plant and played a small part in a new piston launch while there.

Chris Clarke > lepie 10/24/2013 at 09:47

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This could be a COTD, or maybe you should right an entire post about this.

Grindintosecond > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 10:31

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In no way am i saying you're doing things wrong. It's pleasing to hear about people who take care of their cars and really baby things so they can enjoy it longer and properly....with that said,

The age of full warm up is over. The traditional 5 minute cold weather warm up was for carbs to behave properly....using a choke to start the car was from cold carbs. With fuel injection we have proper mixture at all times for all temps. Unless its North Dakota arctic cold, you can drive it lightly once oil pressure is up for perhaps a minute. Honestly, down the street, around 3 corners and my temp needle is starting to rise a bit....things warm up much faster. You still should'nt do large RPM's or full throttle/aggressive launches or anything for a bit until it is warm but waiting int he driveway does no good anymore.

Audio Tachometer > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 12:02

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If it's 80 degrees out, I don't even let my carbureted, loosey-goosey truck idle for 2 minutes. I'm kind of beating a dead horse here, but if you maintain decent oil pressure drive that bad boy.

lepie > Chris Clarke 10/24/2013 at 13:37

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COTD would be quite an honor for a noob like me. Maybe i'll write a post on it.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Grindintosecond 10/24/2013 at 14:29

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Well here is what I do. I generally let the car warm up for about 2 to 3 minutes and then I take it easy for about 10 minutes. After that, things are good to go. I never do WOT until I feel like everything is warm. I was just taught that this was the way to warm a car up.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 10/24/2013 at 14:30

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Well how long is the warm up here? Is 2 to 4 minutes(depending on the weather) too long?

YSI-what can brown do for you > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 10/24/2013 at 14:32

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Well 30 or so seconds in the warm weather sounds about right. How about in the cold weather, my car doesn't drop RPMs until atleast 1 minute after starting it.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Cixelsyd 10/24/2013 at 14:32

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Well it is. . .

1 year old. hehehe

YSI-what can brown do for you > Audio Tachometer 10/24/2013 at 14:33

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Yeah but my bad boy needs to idle for 2 minutes cause I said so. . . but seriously, I didn't know about this until people told me about. A lot of people

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 14:36

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If I were riding in the car with you and you stayed stationary in a brand new car for 2 minutes before taking off, I'd have the most incredulous look on my face.

Freezing/sub-freezing temps? Warm up period justified because oil does not operate well when it's that cold. But oil operates perfectly fine at pretty much ever other relatively normal ambient temp. Again, nothing wrong with letting the car get fully up to temp before romping on it (although not explicitly necessary), but a light-load warm up is as good or better than a stationary one, winter aside.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 10/24/2013 at 14:42

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Well, I warm the engine up and then take it easy on the car for a few miles. So I let everything warm up. I guess I am being double safe, but if there is no need to let an engine warm up for more than a minute or so(in the warm weather) then no need to do it.

If you were riding with me, you would be looking at the drivers seat thinking "Would you look at that sexy brown man"

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 14:47

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You've got me pegged on the second part, I must admit.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 10/24/2013 at 14:48

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Well I mean, I am dead sexy #liesIhaventshoweredinlike4years

cbell04 > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 14:53

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Didn't see it posted here so just a reminder that no matter how much you decide to warm the engine up your drivetrain takes some movement to get to temp so be easy on it till you turned a mile or two..

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 14:56

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So long as you've got that curry scent wafting out of your pores, I'm all yours.

cbell04 > cbell04 10/24/2013 at 14:58

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Got kinja'd on the photo..

Audio Tachometer > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/24/2013 at 15:12

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Yeah you kind of got flooded. But if you want to idle your car for 2 minutes, who am I (or anybody else for that matter) to force you to do anything else.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Audio Tachometer 10/24/2013 at 15:13

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I only keep it running for two minutes cause I thought that is what you should do. If it is unneeded. . . why do it?

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > YSI-what can brown do for you 10/25/2013 at 07:25

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Even in cold weather 30 seconds is more than enough time to sit before you start driving. Just don't get the RPM's too high until you've driven a few miles and everything has warmed up. The high RPM idle on cold starts is purely to get more heat into the cat quicker to reduce cold start emissions.